kameraad mhambi

24 responses so far ↓

• 1 boerinballingskap // Nov 5, 2008 at 10:30 am

  Goeie inskrywing! Die Amerikaners kan wees wie en wat hulle wil, maar inderdaad wys hulle die res van die wereld hoe demokrasie behoort te werk. Mag hierdie voorbeeld ‘n indruk maak op SA politici, veral in aanloop tot 2009. As die nuwe party daadwerklike grond gaan begin wen, sal die ANC se reaksie vir my aandui hoe volwasse/onvolwasse SA se demokrasie in werklikheid is. Maar oor Obama en sy styl van leierskap vra ek myself ook die vraag: hoekom moet ons met Mbeki en JZ gekonfronteer word, terwyl die VSA geseen word met die Colin Powell’s en Barack Obama’s van hierdie wereld?

• 2 Michael Graaf // Nov 5, 2008 at 10:40 am

  Democracy is a relative concept. The US system may be among the best in the world but it leaves a lot to be desired. The first-past-the-post system, and many other details, as well as the general culture of stardom, stifle diversity.

• 3 meisie in brooklyn // Nov 5, 2008 at 11:52 am

  ag, ek het ook ‘n traan of drie gepik

• 4 Geir // Nov 5, 2008 at 12:57 pm

  Very well written, and very true everywhere, not only in South Africa. This is what happens when power gets you or when politics become a career path and not a vision.

• 5 Så var det sagt… » Bloggarkiv » Det viktigste med Obama er… // Nov 5, 2008 at 4:59 pm

  [...] Khamerad Mhambi skriver et fantastisk innlegg om Obama, der han sammenligner ham med Mandela og viser ham hvilke signaler det amerikanske valget gir til Mhambis hjemland Sør-Afrika. [...]

• 6 Abbie // Nov 12, 2008 at 1:16 pm

  How do you justify your comment “it’s good news for minorities everywhere”? As far as the media reports go, the black minority in America failed dismally to vote on principle, as opposed to voting for race.

  The white and Spanish Americans had the same average percentage of votes for the democrats this year, compared to previous years. However, 96% of black Americans votes were for Obama this year, which is apparently much higher than previous years. On top of that, more black Americans went to vote this year compared to previous years.

  The blacks have discriminated against a white candidate based on race. How is Obama going to make these blacks more open to accepting whites? As far as I can tell, he is singing a tune that is very familiar in Africa and look how successful that has been in racial reconciliation. Had he denounced his relationship with the racist reverend Wright from the start, he would have been different to the norm and he would truly have had potential to bring about change. I only use that one incident to prove a general point. When Obama needed to take action and abstain from the reverend’s services he failed. It was such a simple thing to do. Bad things happen when good men do nothing.

  Only if he can make them more tolerant of whites do the black minority in America stand to win something. Many people that are part of African minorities, including you, are hoping that he will influence Africa. Even if he achieves making American blacks more open to whites, how will it really benefit minorities in Africa where African human rights issues have such a dismal track record?

  I sense you have erred in your judgment by giving Obama the hero/cult status that is based on race and not principle, which is similar to the status enjoyed by some African leaders, including Mbeki (during his presidency).

• 7 Abbie // Nov 12, 2008 at 1:53 pm

  I often read your blog and follow your comments in “Constitutionally Speaking.” You have a phenomenal knowledge about politics in South Africa and the world but sometimes common sense must prevail. If there are holes in my reasoning I’m open to changing my opinion.

• 8 Kameraad Mhambi // Nov 13, 2008 at 4:02 am

  Hi Abbie

  I was in New York recently and we took a taxi cab. The driver - who was black - told us that he supported Hilliary. I was quite astounded, but he was no alone. Many black Americans I spoke to at that time said they preferred Hillary. I suspect they were lying - to themselves.

  I think they never thought Obama would be elected. Or that he was not good enough. They did not want to be disappointed. He was black after all.

  It was only in the later stages of the election that black America fell in solid behind him as you describe. It seemed as if he could transend all that.

  Yes, they voted for him because he is black (or coloured as we would say). There are some whites I’m sure that voted for him partly because he is black as well!

  Does this mean that Obama represents race based politics?

  Intentions and outcomes often diverge wildly. Obama’s election is the balm, the catharsis the US an the world needs to start to get beyond race.

  I can understand fully why black Americans voted for Obama the way they did considering the US’s history. But by doing it, they changed history. It’s almost like measuring the position of an sub atomic particle, you can do it. BUT the measurement changes its position.

  Black Americans will feel more part of the US than ever before, and conversely have less excuses.

  Our party based system makes this difficult, but I’m sure that if in the future an Afrikaner were to be elected President of South Africa, many Afrikaners will vote for that person for simply the reason that Afrikaners feel excluded (sometimes rightly sometimes wrongly). But after they have done so, they won’t feel the need as much for identity politics anymore.

  Obama’s election is good news for Indian and Chinese minorities in Malaysia, for Afrikaners and whites in South Africa, for blacks in England. That’s why I say its good news for minorities everywhere.

• 9 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 4:49 am

  “Black Americans will feel more part of the US than ever before, and conversely have less excuses.”

  How can blacks feel more part of the US than ever before? They had a very significant and different voting pattern to the other two races. And there have been no discussions about this in the media because stating that blacks are different instantly equates to racism.

  I completely agree with you that the world needs to get beyond race. Identify the races, get to know the races and find the good in each one of them. Too many people read your statement in a way that we must eliminate the differences between the races. Nobody should have to change to fit in with another race.

  As a white South African I am already being labeled a racist for criticizing Obama. From my experience constructive criticism is the only way for anyone or any nation to grow. No amount of money in the world can buy a person or a nation’s growth because good morals, legislation and politics are not for sale. These criteria form the foundation of a countries socio-economic well being.

  I’m not saying America should only have white presidents. Had the media criticized the African Americans for their racism then it would seem that there truly was no racial discrimination by the media in America. It seems more likely that Obama has been selected the media puppet to become America’s front to the world of being a “changed” nation.

  That begs the question where is the media going with all of this? If Obama is a puppet, what is he being used for? I believe the answer lies somewhere in a blog entry I found on the Mail & Guardian’s website. The post is called, “Obama will change Africa starting with Zimbabwe?” and in the content is the statement “…then all bets on accepting substandard performances because Africa is purportedly behind the rest of the planet are now off.” (And even in your very own words, “and conversely have less excuses”)

  That statement is not true because the media have again burnt their fingers badly with racial discrimination during the American elections. The vast majority of Africans are blacks and they are not going to allow racial manipulation, even if it means having to make the worst sacrifices. They have proven the extent of suffering that they are willing to endure in Zimbabwe. Mugabe was popular amongst African blacks because he supposedly stood up against the West. I agree that things are not going to continue in Zimbabwe like they have been for the last few years. Something is going to give way – a million people are probably going to starve in Zim before the end of the year. But the first thing blacks in the rest of Africa are going to do is to call Obama a puppet once they discover that the American wealth is not coming to them. They are not going to give a toss whether “westerners” have a black president that is complaining about their substandard performances or anything else, for that matter. I have to agree too.

  The only thing that matters is whether black and white Africans are happy with their own performance. They will listen to honest criticism, which has been sorely lacking, and decide on their fate.

• 10 Kameraad Mhambi // Nov 13, 2008 at 5:00 am

  I saw quite a few articles on the 96% black vote for Obama.

  But yes, I think there is a liberal bias in the press.

  But come on Abbie. A year ago Obama’s election was almost unthinkable.

  In our own country Afrikaners for a long time voted for only the National party election after election.

  I understand your point but if you don’t see the context your making a mistake.

  To expect black Americans to have behaved differently is naive (with all respect).

  You say: “Obama has been selected the media puppet to become America’s front to the world of being a “changed” nation. ”

  I actually think he is a very bright and deserving candidate, and I love the team of people he has surrounded himself with, I like his policy positions, but you are right to an extent. He is a media symbol.

  And the weird thing is Abbie - as a white Afrikaner living in a black majority state - this is going to be to your benefit.

  Don’t underestimate the power of symbolism.

  “But the first thing blacks in the rest of Africa are going to do is to call Obama a puppet once they discover that the American wealth is not coming to them. They are not going to give a toss whether “westerners” have a black president that is complaining about their substandard performances or anything else, for that matter.”

  This statement of yours I can confidently say will be proven to be wrong.

• 11 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 5:08 am

  African American’s should be important enough to be in the media about the whole voting debacle. Criticize them for voting according to race instead of principles. Then LET THEM DECIDE if they will accept or discard it. Why hasn’t Obama insisted on this?

• 12 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 5:20 am

  “To expect black Americans to have behaved differently is naive (with all respect).” No, that is not what I expected. Judging from all the media hype, I did expect Obama to be sensitive to these issues though. Yet again he has taken no action. Strike 2.

  “And the weird thing is Abbie - as a white Afrikaner living in a black majority state - this is going to be to your benefit.” I’d love to believe you but Obama does not take action on racial issues.

• 13 Attie // Nov 13, 2008 at 8:46 am

  Abbie jy kyk vas in die ras aspek. Obama is swart, maar so what. Jy was nou nog nie self in Amerika nie so jy sal nie weet nie, maar daar is nie affirmative action soos hier nie. It is the best man for the job. Meeste buitelanders (wat meestal wit is) is Obama ondersteuners. Geensins omdat hy swart is nie, maar omdat hy iets verteenwoordig - ja daai ou cliche verandering.

  Hy is ‘n grys ou in plek van wit-en-swart. En hy is nie in Olie (of ‘n ander sektor) se sak nie. Amerikaners is regtelik siek daarvoor dat al die Bushes, Ken Lays & Dick Cheneys ryker en ryker word en die gewone mense duurder en duurder moet betaal vir krag, oorloë ens.

  Dit is Obama se ticket en nie sy kleur nie.

• 14 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 9:58 am

  “Abbie jy kyk vas in die ras aspek.” Vir my is die belangrikste aspek die media. Ek glo die media het al vir Suid Afrikaners gruwelik teleur gestel oor ras issues en nou sien ek dit gebeur maar net weer oor Amerika se verskiesing. Dit is iets wat my nou direk raak. Die dag wat ek besef hoe die rykdom van die Bushes, Ken Lays & Dick Cheneys my geraak het sal ek seker ook daaroor kommentaar lewer.

  “Dit is Obama se ticket en nie sy kleur nie.” Dit is dalk hoe jy dit verstaan, en hoe baie van die Amerikaners wat vir hom gestem het dit verstaan. Maar dit is nie hoekom Kenya ‘n publieke vakansdag verklaar het toe hy as president verkies is nie. Daar is groot sosiale EN economiese verwagtinge van Obama oor die hele Amerika en die wereld.

• 15 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 10:09 am

  Die ander belangrike aspek is natuurlik Obama self. Hy het bewys dat hy tot nou toe nog nie bevoegd was om ras kwessies op ‘n goeie manier te hanteer nie (of hy self nou wit, pienk of pers was). Ras kwessies is ook iets wat my nou baie erg raak.

• 16 Kameraad Mhambi // Nov 13, 2008 at 10:26 am

  Ag Abbie. Ek stel voor jy luister aandagtig na Obama se toespraak oor ras op YouTube.

  Hier is gedeeltes:
  “Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, “The past isn’t dead and buried. In fact, it isn’t even past.” We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

  The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright’s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

  In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch. They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

  Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation.”

  So Abbie, the point your missing is this.

  Afrikaners always voted for the Nats, English SA for the Progs. The Cubans in the US always vote for the Republicans. The jews for the pro jewish candidate. The blacks for the pro black candidate. In SA today the whites vote for the white Democratic aliance, the coloureds for the ID, blacks for the ANC. In the UK people are debating the issue and are saying that its unlikely that a balck candidate would become a president like in the US before Obama.

  With this election blacks voted for Obama. That is not news. It’s things as usual. Nothing special, and really nothing for you to get upset about.

  What different is that more than 40% of the US’s white population and a significant hispanic contingent voted for a black man. That’s what different.

  Get it?

• 17 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 10:49 am

  Mhambi:
  “What different is that more than 40% of the US’s white population and a significant hispanic contingent voted for a black man. That’s what different.”

  Yes I get it and I will celebrate that victory for the Spanish and White American’s with you for as long, and hard, as you like! I think we have come to an agreement.

  Vir Attie:
  Soveel soos wat jy wil he die ras kwessie nie ‘n issue moet wees nie, is dit juis hoekom die media so groot bohaai oor Obama op skop. Ek het nie ‘n probleem daarmee as die media die sosiale klimaat van die wereld goed wil probeer beinvloed nie, want soos ek gese het ek self word erg deur ras issues geraak in SA. Maar dan moet die media nie ‘n bydrae aan die probleem maak nie en die verkeerde kandidaat vir hul veldtog kry nie. As daar nie iemand gepas is nie, dan los dit eerder.

  “it’s better for a people to perish than live on in injustice”

  Obama is nie ‘n ou van aksie nie. As ek dit kan raak sien kan die mense, vir wie hy veronderderstel is om soveel verandering te bring, dit ook sien. Mense hou nie van verandering nie en dus het jy werklik ‘n sterk persoon nodig om so iets te laat gebeur.

• 18 Kameraad Mhambi // Nov 13, 2008 at 10:58 am

  “Obama is nie ‘n ou van aksie nie.”

  Uit vandag se Economist “Mr Obama is bringing the same talent for organisation to the transition that he brought to his campaign. He has been quietly planning since the summer with John Podesta, a former White House chief of staff to Bill Clinton and the head of a Clintonian think-tank, the Centre for American Progress, studying previous transitions and mulling over appointments. And he announced an expanded transition team the day after winning the election, adding Valerie Jarrett, a veteran Chicago insider, and Pete Rouse, his chief of staff in the Senate. So far the troika’s approach has been thoroughly businesslike, with remarkably few leaks (particularly for Democrats) and a firm focus on getting things done quickly but not hastily. Mr Podesta has suggested that, given the gravity of the country’s problems, Mr Obama will try to announce several cabinet appointments, particularly the treasury secretary and the national security team, before December.

  They are determined to avoid repeating the mistakes that Mr Clinton made and that many of them lived through. He was slow off the mark, failing to make a single senior appointment for six weeks after he was elected and indulging instead in endless waffle.”

  Ek dink Obama gaan jou verkeerd bewys, maar geluk gaan jy baarby baatvind. ‘n Verloor wen situasie.

• 19 Attie // Nov 13, 2008 at 11:20 am

  Abbie, ek dink Obama is JUIS ‘n ou van aksie. Jy word nie Pres in die VSA as jy nie ‘n ou vir aksie is nie. I guess time will tell.

  Doen jouself ‘n guns; gaan kyk na ‘n Obama speech op Youtube. En onthou ek sê nie Obama is sonder foute nie - ek sê net ongetwyfeld hy is die beste persoon vir die joppie.

• 20 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 11:28 am

  Look I’ve played dirty because I stand to lose nothing. If I’m right then I get to tell you I told you so. If I’m wrong, I may have an improved life, being a white in Africa. Time will tell. But rest assured if I’m wrong I will acknowledge it.

• 21 Abbie // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:09 pm

  No, I did not play dirty. This was done in good conscience. Unlike Obama, even though it makes me unpopular, I have said what was needed to be said.

• 22 Abbie // Nov 14, 2008 at 12:59 am

  I was wondering how Obama could make African Americans more tolerant to whites. (That is something that could potentially set a precedent for other countries, including more tolerant whites in South Africa). He can go and tell them that the whites have become more tolerant than the past because most voted him in as president despite his colour. But that is not something that they can identify with. They did not vote for him despite his colour. It is not something that they can feel part of and so their attitudes are probably not going to change.

  This is just an incredibly impotent situation and now even more so because Obama has not raised the racism issue. It would have opened up a can of worms but Obama could have handled it because he is a very good speaker. That way he could have regained the ground that was lost by blacks during the election. I still don’t think you can justify your statement “it’s good news for minorities everywhere”. Obama might still raise the issue, but you have jumped to your conclusions prematurely and that is exactly the problem that I have with the media. I think you just see what you want to see at the expense of the truth. Do you know how much damage this is causing to resolving racial issues? It is very ironic.

• 23 Abbie // Nov 14, 2008 at 3:00 am

  My comment “But the first thing blacks in the rest of Africa are going to do is to call Obama a puppet once they discover that the American wealth is not coming to them. They are not going to give a toss whether “westerners” have a black president that is complaining about their substandard performances or anything else, for that matter,” was answered, “This statement of yours I can confidently say will be proven to be wrong.”

  Yes, maybe it will be proven wrong. They will probably call the president a racist first (regardless that he is black). That has happened here in South Africa many times amongst the blacks when anyone gives criticism. And those that care about the president’s opinion are the media and intellectuals. By now the general population, blacks and whites, have a vague grasp of how dishonest they are. This is just unfolding into ANOTHER impotent situation.

• 24 Abbie // Nov 14, 2008 at 3:43 am

  If the media was unbiased then the African Americans can rightfully have more confidence in their race. This will definitely have a long term impact on minorities over the world. But now that can, and should be, questioned by the African Americans. Some reports said that the American media had a 80 – 20 % bias towards Obama during the elections. If the African Americans know this (and you don’t have to see the results of a survey to know this, all you have to do is read often), then they have a much weaker platform for developing their self confidence.

  If nothing else, maybe I’ve highlighted that race issues are very complex. There is no quick fix and no need to cry tears over this election. That is just making the problem worse.

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