The first time I heard of Gavin Evans, I have to say I was not impressed. He wrote a very critical article during the Rugby World Cup Final of the too white make up of the Springbok rugby team. He got it very wrong I thought. Not only that. I agreed with one commentator – Chris Louw – that Gavin had showed an unreflective prejudice against Afrikaners.
Gavin Evans and Saul Batzofin – who was sent to prison for refusing to serve in the SADF – celebrate.
I heard Gavin Evan’s name again, when I interviewed Bret Myrdall for the Grensoorlog documentary. Brett I have to say impressed me no end. A large chap, unassuming, but very eloquent, he told me how he had ended up being an ANC Umkhonto we Sizwe member. It almost cost him his life, and its affected him ever since.
Brett’s personal story for me embodies up the excitement, tumult and tragedy of South Africa.
During the interview Brett mentioned that Gavin Evans had recruited him into the ANC. Mmm I thought, could it be the same guy?
I searched for Gavin on the web, and found his blog. He lived in London like me. He wrote very well researched and lengthy (never boring) articles on diverse subjects, from like Zimbabwe to Bruce Springsteen. I was intrigued.
Well, the End Conscription Campaign (ECC), in which both Brett and Gavin were instrumental, recently celebrated 25 years since its founding.
Gavin invited me along to the celebration in London. We had a great day, and I met some great people. But to me it was odd in a way.
Rian Malan sings of ” ‘n paar velore Boere wat vriende soek” on his brilliant album Alien Inboorling. It’s in a song about a guy that misses home, but laments that he is “bang vir Afrika”.
And that is a bit of how the ECC meeting felt. Not “bang vir Afrika” necessarily, but it felt like a group of people who having been so involved in South Africa now feel a little lost outside of it. And they were finding solace i each others company. And with that I include myself.
(Or perhaps it was just me, projecting my feelings onto others?) See below why this was edited.
I wondered to myself whether the other people present also feels what I felt. That I’m in a way feel a bit lost – ontwortel. Having been so involved in South Africa, and now being outside of it?
Boere? – None bar myself were Afrikaners mind. The ECC did have branches on Stellenbosch and Tukkies, but it was first and foremost an English white organisation driven from UCT (at first, and then took hold at other varsities).
None of the objectors that went to prison were Afrikaans speaking as far as I could tell. Nevertheless, here we were in London at an ECC party listening to Koos Kombuis’ Niemandsland, and Johannes Kerkorrel on repeat. A first for me.
To cut a long story short it was clear to me that Gavin is a very very interesting person. He had worked closely with the likes of Hani, Mbeki, Mac Maharaj, Jeremy Cronin and others. He worked with the likes of Brett Myrdal and Janet Cherry (now there’s a woman!). He could tell stories about the ANC in exile. He could tell stories about the ANC underground in South Africa.
I wanted to interview him and Gavin agreed.
Now that’s the first thing I have to say about Gavin. He strikes you as an incredibly open and generous person. Unpretentious yet remarkable. Bright and informed. You can probably tell by now that I have changed my mind about him.
Gavin lives in an unassuming house in North London. It struck me during the interview that some of his former comrades are now presidents, ex-presidents or dead. Gavin – I suspect – is more at peace with himself than many of his ex-comrades.
I did not however agree with all he said in the interview. But I do agree with most. I’ll be posting the interview in 14 parts over the next few weeks. Nothing has been cut out, I simply chopped it into digestible chunks.
Related deployments:
14 responses so far ↓
1 Mike
// Nov 22, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Sound like primary research to me, not simply journalism…
2 Gavin Evans
// Nov 23, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Hi Wessel – regarding your question about whether there were any Afrikaner objectors: yes, I think there were a few. One of the first was Johann van Wyk, who was sentenced to 15 months (suspended) in 1978 for, I think, refusing to do an army camp. Then in 1989 Andre Croucamp refused to do a camp and was charged and bailed. Not sure what happened to him. There were three others who, I think, had at least one Afrikaans-speaking parent: Anton Eberhard (jailed for 12 months in 1977), Etienner Essery (jailed for four months for refusing to do a camp in 1983) and Charles Bester (sentenced to six years in 1989, at the age of 18, for refusing to do National Service, but released on appeal after about 18 months in jail). To put this in perspective, I think a total of about 23-25 people were charged with refusing to serve, of which about 15 were jailed, and the rest were fined, given suspended sentences or had charges against them dropped (usually for technical reasons relating to procedure, or because their trials came after 1990).
Cheers
Gavin
3 matt
// Nov 24, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Wessel -
Lots of projection and assumptions mate.
4 Kameraad Mhambi
// Nov 25, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Hi Gavin, thanks for that.
I met Anton Eberhard when working on the Grensoorlog documentary. What’s really amazing about him is that not only that he was the first objector, but that the support systems were not there to help him yet. He did it all on his own.
Being English or Afrikaans in South Africa has with the years become quite fluid. Now more so than ever (perhaps because whites are now out of direct power and the old tussles make no sense.)
In Anton’s case he might have had an Afrikaans parent, but I got the impression he was very much living in an English South African world.
The other people you mention I have not met, but I did chat a bit to Charles – and I feel in his case of was very much the same.
I did put the question about the difference of involvement of Afrikaners to Laurie Nathan and he had an interesting explanation for it. Jannie Gagiano also did some research on the matter. And I might write a dedicated blog post about it – it ties into Mike’s question on Gavin’s first clip, the question of upbringing and context.
One thing though, come 1989 with the Voelvry movement and Houtstok, there was a real bubbling up of a type of Paris 68 spirit in young educated Afrikanerdom. Unfortunately it was a bit late. The fight was almost over.
But still in the list of 700 or so of individuals that publicly stated they will not serve there were literally dozens (if not hundreds) of Afrikaners. In the previous list of 23 (?) there were a number as well.
Matt, yes they are assumptions, but I stated they were. And I am open and invite them to being challenged and proved wrong.
It better to talk about things than leave assumptions hanging around?
5 matt
// Nov 25, 2009 at 8:03 pm
I can only speak for myself and the reason I was at the event. I felt it necessary to ensure that the role of the exiled group COSAWR – a precursor to the ECC – was not neglected. And the exile dimension was different with practical matters of accomodation, visas and work opportunities taking priority over the political lobbying and research and intelligence work.
I think that what you read as being lost outside of South Africa is actually the caution with which we now approach the world. And a lot of this comes from being fucked over then and today being highly protective of what we have been able to create and salvage.
I went back in 1990 and left again in 1998 for Sydney Australia before once again arriving in London five years ago. In the past two years I have been back to South Africa on business and whilst I always feel very alive when I’m there I also find it insular, myopic and self-obsessed.
I’m very happy to be living in London again and involved in South Africa on a cultural lever (reissuing the classic back catelogue of Rashid Vally’s AsShams label). And this goes back to my formative years at University where for me the jol was more important than the endless meetings and political hard-line… Immediately after the 1982 Culture and Resistance festival in Gabarone I was drawn to cultural activities, starting my own band and organising concerts in support of the cultural boycott, indigenous artists and the UDF. …
enough for now…
6 Kameraad Mhambi
// Nov 26, 2009 at 11:15 am
Matt, on reflection I think I should apologise to you and on the other people that attended the event, as it could be seen as an insult.
Firstly, I felt honoured to attend the event. And the people there were what I expected. Courageous people that took difficult decisions at a difficult time.
People I have utmost respect for.
As I alluded to, I myself often struggle with the fact that I am not in South Africa. I matriculated in 1990, and where not as involved in politics like you were, but I did a little bit in student politics at Tukkies and then later at the TRC. In fact it was my whole world at the time. And as this blog can attest to, I still cant let go.
Perhaps its unreasonable, but its fair to say I experience some guilt as to not still being directly involved in trying to make South Africa a better place. Koos Kombuis sang in Ver van die ou Kalahari, that we know the ‘chicken run’ is foul play. That resonates with me.
What is definitely unreasonable is to project that on others.
South Africans are self obsessed, its where their world often starts and ends. But I think there is a reason for that. The country has so much promise. It’s a remarkable place, with a remarkable story. But everyday seems like a fight for its future. It’s still not at peace. Its future is not settled. It’s like with being parents of a very sick child. How not to be obsessed with it?
7 afrikola
// Nov 26, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Very interesting series,a world within and without a country,individual visions and projections of past and future.Pacifists,War Resisters,Ecologists,Christians,Buddhists and all other types of objectors swimming around that sharkpond called the SADF.It called for individual solutions and group solidarity.Some swam ,some sunk.Some got conscious,by experiencing the maschinations of war in Namibia and Angola,others the pain of exile.But as Matt said,it was not all serious,many great parties going down. Never really experienced the language devide,after all the first anti-conscription song in Afrikaans was sung by an Englishman from the East Rand.There were many interesting,extraordinary individuals in these organisations(just had a look at Johan van Wyk’s website,fascinating stuff),but survived with great support from many unknown “footsoldiers”.I just have one lingering question though,whether there was any of the black and coloured soldiers in the SADF or the Bantustan Forces that also refused service after initially volunteering .Could very well be,especially during the mid eighties,when some of these guys was ordered into townships and very often called upon to do intelligence work at rallies and meetings,with the obvious risks attached.
8 Mike
// Nov 26, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Wessel, I enjoy the way that you used ’strike through’ font to edit your post, yet be transparent about your initial writings. I believe it’s the kind of honesty needed to get somewhere with these kind of discussions.
9 Chris GIffard
// Nov 26, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Afrikola, there was a coloured guy from the (volunteer) Cape Corps (I think his name was David Pypers) who objected in some form or other. Here is a picture of him sharing a (small) platform with me and Margot Lynn at the 1985 ECC Peace Festival at Wits. ( http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3897153&op=2&o=all&view=all&subj=76233188748&aid=-1&oid=76233188748&id=669254992#/photo.php?pid=2433165&op=6&o=all&view=all&subj=76233188748&aid=-1&oid=76233188748&id=777488881 ) I don’t know what happened to him. Perhaps Gavin remembers?
His memory is a lot better than mine.
10 matt
// Nov 26, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Check out this radio book from my mate Kurt. This hits the spot a lot better than much of the attempts I’m making at explaining the times… http://www.radiobooks.eu/zuidafrikaradioboek.php?id=266&lang=EN
11 Kameraad Mhambi
// Nov 28, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Thanks Matt, interesting link. Last year Radio 4 had a 1968 season and much of the debate went along the same lines. The social revolution and the political, and how their often was a tension between the two.
12 David van Wyk
// Dec 29, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Wessel, we crossed paths before. Johan van Wyk refused to do military service on political grounds in 1978. As far las I know he was the first to do so on political grounds. He was released from the “mental ward” in Pretoria after international pressure from writers unions. He was never a member of the ECC. His political world view at the time could be described as anarchist/pacifist.
I was a member of 31 Batallion at the time. I resigned after what happened to him. He was detained, severely beaten, given shock treatment and pumped full of mind control pills.
I left SA in January 1993, after having completed a BA Degree at WITS, 4 days before a camp call up, and spent the time between 1983 and January 1992 in Harare, Zimbabwe. Where I was involved with Kallie Hanekom in securing safe houses for MK operatives in transit.
By the way Johan was and still is a close friend of Marcel van Heerden, the narrator of your program, “Grensoorlog”. Johan and many of his friends, including Breyten Breytenbach, Chris Pretorius, Niel Goedhals and numerous other Afrikaners were opposed to Apartheid and the war in Namibia and Angola, but were not members of the ECC. Niel committed suicide (perhaps to avoid conscription?).
Johan was the first and perhaps only South African and Afrikaner Punk Poet, and together with Marcel and Niel produced Sloper and Koos.
13 Kameraad Mhambi
// Dec 30, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Haai Dawid, thank very much for this information about Johan. Is Niel Goedhals the guy who jumped off the balcony of a block of flats in Yeoville?
It’s weird, I went through the documents of the ECC found at SAHA who listed objectors, including the pre-ECC objectors like Anton Ebehard and found no mention of Johan van Wyk.
Some more observations about the Afrikaans English thing – When I interviewed Anton Kannemeyer of Bitterkomix fame he said:
“O.K., vanmiddag is daar ‘n E.C.C. Meeting in ‘Die Gat’ en dan kom een of ander persoon praat van U. C. T. of what ever, en hulle probeer mense soveel moontlik inlig oor wat hulle te doen staan, wat kan gebeur, wat jou ‘legal rights’ is, ensovoorts. So, dikwels het daar Lawyers for Human Rights se mense kom praat en so. En ek onthou dan, wat gebeur is: dan het ons nou hierdie Meeting’ en dan sit ons nou daar, en Jesis, die volgende oomblik, hier kom ouens van Wilgenhof en van Helderberg koshuise, en dan begin hulle die mense tart in Die Gat, en hulle bring eiers en tamaties, dan begin hulle die mense gooi met hierdie eiers en tamaties en, jy weet, Victor Honey en die mense wat ek geken het, wat aan die E C C behoort het, was verskiklik soort van, ons gaan nie terug veg nie, ons gaan nie iets doen nie, ons is te swak vir passiewe aksie, en ek moet se my gemoedstoestand en manier hoe ek is, is nie eintlik so nie, en ek onthou eendag het hierdie ou , so ‘n reuse ou, het ‘n klip opgetel en hy’t hom net so terug gegooi, en hy het een van hierdie Wilgehof ouens tussen die oe gegooi. Die ou het net so gaan sit daar , en ek het gedink: ‘ Weldone,’ jy weet, want ten spyte van die feit dat ek saam met hierdie mense is, dat ek ook nie saamstem met, of dat ek saam stem met wat die E.C.C. te se het , en so, ek is nie Gandi nie; ek wens ek was, maar ek is nie; ek voel ek is een van daai mense wat voel ek moet iets doen; en dis waarskynlik waarom ek Commics geteken het oor die goed wat ek oor sterk voel. En die ding is, jy weet ek moet absoluut glo in ‘resistance’. En dit is een van die dinge van die E.C.C.. wat my ‘n bietjie onder gekry het; hierdie soort van ding van O.K.,: kom ons word maar gegooi met tamaties – dan sit ons daar en ons gesels en ons ‘inform’ en ons probeer uitbrei en so, jy weet, ek het daarmee ongemaklik gesit.”
Laurie Nathan told me:
“When we tried, in later years, to set up a branch on Stellenbosch University campus, we were told by many students that we were worse than the enemy because we were traitors. ”
and -
“Look. There was big division between the English and the Afrikaans speaking, white, communities then, and probably still is, but much more so then. And there was a lot of prejudice, English speaking whites saw Afrikaaners as conservative and culturally inferior. I mean I grew up with that subliminal notion that Afrikaaners were not as refined or sophisticated. Never mind, that was just part of the prejudice we grew up with and there’s also no doubt that English people tended to be more liberal, they tended to vote for the liberal opposition in a white parliament, whereas Afrikaaners tended to vote for the National Party. I don’t even know now if that’s (importantly) true, but we certainly grew up with that belief. And, I suppose, it was just, it was easy for English speaking whites who were benefiting from Apartheid to not accept any blame. So we blame Afrikaaners. In any event, Afrikaans-speaking communities were very conservative and there was a lot of real fury directed at the ECC. So, in fact because of the prejudice there was some debate within our own ranks about whether we wanted to set up branches, or attempt to work in the Afrikaans community. There was a lot of stereotyping and the feeling that, well you know, all Afrikaaners are racist or reactionary, why are we wasting our time. We don’t want to be contaminated. There was that debate. I thought it was a stupid debate, frankly. This was a question of strategy, not principle, and the strategy was make inroads into conservative communities. And if our agenda is to undermine the State – if our agenda is to undermine the State by being subversive within the white community around so sensitive an issue as the military, then obviously we have to work in the Afrikaans-speaking community. Obviously. And we’re not going to have an easy time of it. But the symbolism counts more than the quantity, so it doesn’t matter with the argument, whether we have small numbers of Afrikaaners joining our ranks, what matters is that we have some. We also want to counteract the counter-steering coming from the State and the right wing groups that say “Are you just a bunch of English liberals, or English radicals or English moffies or whatever the pejorative term thrown at us was. We wanted to demonstrate that that wasn’t the case. And, as national organiser of the end conscription campaign I worked in Pretoria and Stellenbosch with relish. I loved it. I loved the challenge, I liked the confrontational politics, I loved working with Afrikaans students who were radicals, because they were completely different from us, they were way more confrontationalist than their politics. They thought we were mealie-mouthed. They thought that we always beat around the bush. They would tell us that we never spoke honestly and frankly. It was part of the English syndrome that we prevaricated, whereas they grew up with confrontational politics, where a good fight at the end of the meeting was a good thing, not a bad thing. And I found it fascinating. I spoke to Afrikaans student leaders at Stellenbosch who had, I think this must be now, 1985/’86, who’d taken a delegation of young Afrikaans student leaders to meet the ANC in exile, but would not get involved in the end conscription campaign, and I said, “Why? Surely you’re willing to take this risk meeting the ANC in exile, why would you not be associated with the ECC?” And their response was, “The difference is that they are the enemy and sooner or later we will have to talk to the enemy. But you’re traitors and we’re never going to talk to you.””
What I find interesting as well is that some Afrikaners went even further and joined the ANC, but that the number that joined the ECC were low?
14 afrikola
// Jan 3, 2010 at 12:37 am
check out trollop slaap te veel.blogspot,for some more action from johan en david van wyk,neil goedhals and others in a “fotoboekie” that was not,Grensvegter.
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