Comments on: Is Breyten calling for a Volkstaat or what? http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival A re-deployed blog with views on Azania* Thu, 10 May 2012 21:13:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Impressions from SA – no alien human interspecies sex http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1753 Impressions from SA – no alien human interspecies sex Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:46:39 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1753 [...] so Breyten has been making noises of late. But your a bit late Breyten, and a little out of touch. And you are a pain in the [...] [...] so Breyten has been making noises of late. But your a bit late Breyten, and a little out of touch. And you are a pain in the [...]

]]> By: Unanswered letters & the second Great Trek http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1746 Unanswered letters & the second Great Trek Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:30:18 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1746 [...] ← Is Breyten calling for a Volkstaat or what? Would you consider living in a Volkstaat? [...] [...] ← Is Breyten calling for a Volkstaat or what? Would you consider living in a Volkstaat? [...]

]]> By: Bob Morane al http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1517 Bob Morane al Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:41:34 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1517 WHY ? / WHY TO US ?/ IT'S UNFAIR / BUT YOU TOLD US THAT It's quite fascinating to follow the constant whining of Afrikaner people who are in the same moral position as "nazis" and "nazis" offspring who would have dared after the 2nd world war to complain (in shock really) that Israel or Poland is not an ideal country for them and that they feel not welcome and respected few years after the cease-fire. The political changes which occurred in SA without a massive bloodbath didn't mean really that there is any future, possibility/potential for afrikaners (i don't say white people) as a distinct population and culture in SA for the weight and stains of their past are too lethal for a common future with the rest of the population. Yes, it's unfair for the young afrikaners who were not born or responsible but life must go on. afrikaners did not give away the power for any other reasons than a political/economical dead end on the world scene and a fear of annihilation in an open civil war and a lack of ressources to sustain that war. So, it will be easier to make an influx of new occidental immigrants (with modern skills) than to find a place for afrikaners in the new SA. LIFE IN SA SUCKS / WE WERE IN A BETTER POSITION BEFORE Sure, You were Electricity shortages, civil service incompetence, criminality, corruption in SA are inherent to a third world country and SA is a third world country and always was. But it was easier for afrikaners when all the ressources were aimed quite exclusively at the white population and when the dictatorship of a police/racial state enforced the law by the containment of the vast majority of the population. VOLKSTAAT The Volkstaat (Jurassic Park for Afrikaners, reverse bantustan, you name it) fantasies are non practical and dangerous jokes. Their only present interest is that they provide solace for part of the most aggressive afrikaners who think of it as an astute device to progressively restore the statu quo ante (curiously it seems that the real model is based on the israeli occupied territories and religious zealot colonies). POPULATION Part of the Afrikaners (around 2,8 milion people) will probably dissolve in the english speaking population, another part will emigrate and disappear in the world melting pot, aging and demogaphics will provide for the main rest. LANGUAGE Afrikaans as a language will evolve and will at best become a lingua franca for a larger part of the coloured population (but i think that for economic and sociological reasons, they will adopt massively the english language). CULTURE ? / OBLIVION NEXT STOP What did the Afrikaners bring to the world: 1) initially rural then civil servant stubbornness (tyranosaurus redneckus) but with extreme resilience to duress, pragmatism for the menial questions with a touch of far west/trek appetite and christian messianism for the rest, 2) god fearing, archaic protestant "christian" "values" (hierarchy, obedience to authority, litteral reading of the bible, predestination...) 3) peculiar kind of extreme racism (biblical, colonialist/economic, paternalistic kind) with the failed attempt to make a symbiotic system of it. I don't think that they will be able to morph in a viable and fruitful life form for the time to be (knowledge, creativity, openness, reactivity...) Let it be Like the carnivorous dinosaurs, they will not be missed in a modern world WHY ? / WHY TO US ?/ IT’S UNFAIR / BUT YOU TOLD US THAT
It’s quite fascinating to follow the constant whining of Afrikaner people who are in the same moral position as “nazis” and “nazis” offspring who would have dared after the 2nd world war to complain (in shock really) that Israel or Poland is not an ideal country for them and that they feel not welcome and respected few years after the cease-fire.
The political changes which occurred in SA without a massive bloodbath didn’t mean really that there is any future, possibility/potential for afrikaners (i don’t say white people) as a distinct population and culture in SA for the weight and stains of their past are too lethal for a common future with the rest of the population.
Yes, it’s unfair for the young afrikaners who were not born or responsible but life must go on.
afrikaners did not give away the power for any other reasons than a political/economical dead end on the world scene and a fear of annihilation in an open civil war and a lack of ressources to sustain that war.
So, it will be easier to make an influx of new occidental immigrants (with modern skills) than to find a place for afrikaners in the new SA.

LIFE IN SA SUCKS / WE WERE IN A BETTER POSITION BEFORE
Sure, You were
Electricity shortages, civil service incompetence, criminality, corruption in SA are inherent to a third world country and SA is a third world country and always was.

But it was easier for afrikaners when all the ressources were aimed quite exclusively at the white population and when the dictatorship of a police/racial state enforced the law by the containment of the vast majority of the population.

VOLKSTAAT
The Volkstaat (Jurassic Park for Afrikaners, reverse bantustan, you name it) fantasies are non practical and dangerous jokes.
Their only present interest is that they provide solace for part of the most aggressive afrikaners who think of it as an astute device to progressively restore the statu quo ante (curiously it seems that the real model is based on the israeli occupied territories and religious zealot colonies).

POPULATION
Part of the Afrikaners (around 2,8 milion people) will probably dissolve in the english speaking population, another part will emigrate and disappear in the world melting pot, aging and demogaphics will provide for the main rest.

LANGUAGE
Afrikaans as a language will evolve and will at best become a lingua franca for a larger part of the coloured population (but i think that for economic and sociological reasons, they will adopt massively the english language).

CULTURE ? / OBLIVION NEXT STOP
What did the Afrikaners bring to the world:
1) initially rural then civil servant stubbornness (tyranosaurus redneckus) but with extreme resilience to duress, pragmatism for the menial questions with a touch of far west/trek appetite and christian messianism for the rest,

2) god fearing, archaic protestant “christian” “values” (hierarchy, obedience to authority, litteral reading of the bible, predestination…)

3) peculiar kind of extreme racism (biblical, colonialist/economic, paternalistic kind) with the failed attempt to make a symbiotic system of it.

I don’t think that they will be able to morph in a viable and fruitful life form for the time to be (knowledge, creativity, openness, reactivity…)

Let it be

Like the carnivorous dinosaurs, they will not be missed in a modern world

]]> By: Kameraad Mhambi http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 Kameraad Mhambi Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:05:20 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1285 Hi Peter, thanks for the correction. My understanding is that the prosecution forst asked for the death sentence and that the actual sentence was much longer than 7? Or am I wrong? Hi Peter, thanks for the correction.

My understanding is that the prosecution forst asked for the death sentence and that the actual sentence was much longer than 7?

Or am I wrong?

]]> By: Peter Heyde http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1284 Peter Heyde Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:55:55 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1284 Interesting, but quite an important correction.Breyten Breytenbach was not sentenced to death, he was given a seven year sentence, which is far less than many others. I am not trying to take away anything from his achievements, but it certainly is far away from a death sentence. Interesting, but quite an important correction.Breyten Breytenbach was not sentenced to death, he was given a seven year sentence, which is far less than many others. I am not trying to take away anything from his achievements, but it certainly is far away from a death sentence.

]]> By: Zeetee http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1196 Zeetee Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:31:16 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1196 I find it quite distatsteful that in this time and era, there are people who want to belong to a Volkstaat. South Africa is a democracy with all systems political and legal in place to adress any social or political inustice that most Volkstaters are complaining about. It seems that proponents are largely defitists perssimists who believe that a cessation from the main constitutional state to a Volkstaat is a workerble solution. This is not sustainable because at the top of it lies racism and secondly it ignores the fact that we are all in a capitalist state, which is affected equally with other nations by market forces. This begins to beg for a question of how is this Volkstaat sustain itself? Why is it that these people opt to divide this country instead of immegrating if the RSA does not serve their needs? An intergrated country can be much more stronger with all working towards a common goal of sel sustenance and development, instead of fighting ourselves to death for something that will never happen, never mind the sentiments expressed. It seems that this idea crops up only when people are disgrundled such as the Aba- Thembu King. A unitary state is the only option, Buthelezi tried, where is he now? I find it quite distatsteful that in this time and era, there are people who want to belong to a Volkstaat. South Africa is a democracy with all systems political and legal in place to adress any social or political inustice that most Volkstaters are complaining about. It seems that proponents are largely defitists perssimists who believe that a cessation from the main constitutional state to a Volkstaat is a workerble solution. This is not sustainable because at the top of it lies racism and secondly it ignores the fact that we are all in a capitalist state, which is affected equally with other nations by market forces. This begins to beg for a question of how is this Volkstaat sustain itself? Why is it that these people opt to divide this country instead of immegrating if the RSA does not serve their needs? An intergrated country can be much more stronger with all working towards a common goal of sel sustenance and development, instead of fighting ourselves to death for something that will never happen, never mind the sentiments expressed. It seems that this idea crops up only when people are disgrundled such as the Aba- Thembu King. A unitary state is the only option, Buthelezi tried, where is he now?

]]> By: Kameraad Mhambi http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1133 Kameraad Mhambi Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:08:51 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1133 "...making life in South Africa quite impractical at times." This is exactly the dilemma that faces many South Africans, and which I feel is being ignored. “…making life in South Africa quite impractical at times.”

This is exactly the dilemma that faces many South Africans, and which I feel is being ignored.

]]> By: Adriaan Pelzer http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1127 Adriaan Pelzer Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:39:14 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1127 At the end of last year we stopped drinking the municipal water. Sometimes it is clear and smell strongly of chlorine, at other times it's yellow and smell slightly of urine. Last night (like at least one night every month) we listened to the usual commotion outside as copper bandits stole electric wires in our street, leaving us without power (unable to run our business) for yet another day. Quite a nice display, the shouting, screaming tires and green fireworks of live copper wire coming apart. It messes up router power supplies & hard disks though. During these holidays we visited my parents (in Ermelo). On the day before Christmas we went to a friend of my dad's farm. The directions to the farm was "across the road from that guy who got murdered last month's farm", and no-one flinched. My dad never even told me the story, it's not important enough. I'm not an idealist, and I'm relatively apolitical. I don't even read the news, because it tends to depress me. I'm a bit of a pragmatist though, and the above mentioned circumstances are making life in South Africa quite impractical at times. At the end of last year we stopped drinking the municipal water. Sometimes it is clear and smell strongly of chlorine, at other times it’s yellow and smell slightly of urine.

Last night (like at least one night every month) we listened to the usual commotion outside as copper bandits stole electric wires in our street, leaving us without power (unable to run our business) for yet another day.

Quite a nice display, the shouting, screaming tires and green fireworks of live copper wire coming apart. It messes up router power supplies & hard disks though.

During these holidays we visited my parents (in Ermelo). On the day before Christmas we went to a friend of my dad’s farm. The directions to the farm was “across the road from that guy who got murdered last month’s farm”, and no-one flinched. My dad never even told me the story, it’s not important enough.

I’m not an idealist, and I’m relatively apolitical. I don’t even read the news, because it tends to depress me. I’m a bit of a pragmatist though, and the above mentioned circumstances are making life in South Africa quite impractical at times.

]]> By: Kameraad Mhambi http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1126 Kameraad Mhambi Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:02:04 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1126 You speak a lot of truth Mr. Afrikola. The comments underneath Breyten's article is a good case in point. And yes, perhaps Okhela was a one man band? You speak a lot of truth Mr. Afrikola. The comments underneath Breyten’s article is a good case in point.

And yes, perhaps Okhela was a one man band?

]]> By: afrikola http://mhambi.com/2009/12/make-clear-the-distinction-between-historical-culpability-and-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-1125 afrikola Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:55:33 +0000 http://mhambi.com/?p=756#comment-1125 "as Afrika oor die kim verdwyn,stryk die ou vrou die bok se oe plat"-Breyten Breytenbach Sy klippe val in die see.He has resigned from Afrikanerdom at various occasions,even is on record saying, that he is no longer an Afrikaner.So I am perplexed by this sudden "we","us" ! What would ,"culturally identifiable population group"mean ? That the majority of Afrikaners,would suddenly embrace their fellow Afrikaans speakers,would Tsotsitaal and S'camto also qualify,for inclusion? Maybe Liberte,Egalite,Fraternite would become a distant possibillity when most Afrikaners comes to understand what equality really means ! And fraternity is a brotherhood,of a different feather.Petty Apartheid was such a malicious masterstroke(no pun intended),that true fraternalising will not take place for a very long time to come.I have no iota of doubt that Breyten loves his mother tongue,like few other,being the Zanussi of Afrikaans' toordokters,but the Messiah leading "his" volk to the Promised Land.NO.To get a good insight into the progressiveness of this culturally defined population group ,read the letter pages of Rapport.Pieter Mulder has more of a chance ! Aluta Continua ! So, as you can see from Breyten's example,Mhambi,leaving it all behind,is not all that easy. PS-Would be interesting to find out about other members of Okhela? “as Afrika oor die kim verdwyn,stryk die ou vrou die bok se oe plat”-Breyten Breytenbach
Sy klippe val in die see.He has resigned from Afrikanerdom at various occasions,even is on record saying, that he is no longer an Afrikaner.So I am perplexed by this sudden “we”,”us” ! What would ,”culturally identifiable population group”mean ? That the majority of Afrikaners,would suddenly embrace their fellow Afrikaans speakers,would Tsotsitaal and S’camto also qualify,for inclusion? Maybe Liberte,Egalite,Fraternite would become a distant possibillity when most Afrikaners comes to understand what equality really means ! And fraternity is a brotherhood,of a different feather.Petty Apartheid was such a malicious masterstroke(no pun intended),that true fraternalising will not take place for a very long time to come.I have no iota of doubt that Breyten loves his mother tongue,like few other,being the Zanussi of Afrikaans’ toordokters,but the Messiah leading “his” volk to the Promised Land.NO.To get a good insight into the progressiveness of this culturally defined population group ,read the letter pages of Rapport.Pieter Mulder has more of a chance ! Aluta Continua ! So, as you can see from Breyten’s example,Mhambi,leaving it all behind,is not all that easy.
PS-Would be interesting to find out about other members of Okhela?

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